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Post by hordriss on Apr 15, 2008 13:28:45 GMT
A further consideration may be -
Which demons are demons and always have been and which demons are in fact old gods demonised by christianity?
Not a concern in terms of getting them to do what you want but reffering to the previous point of the behaviour and attitudes of demonic creatures.
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john
Familiar
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Post by john on Apr 15, 2008 14:26:12 GMT
zomg christianity is teh evil everyone rage against the machine!
I have literally no idea what you're talking about.
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john
Familiar
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Post by john on Apr 15, 2008 14:33:54 GMT
This is the list of the Goetic spirits. Anyone not on this list does not come under the catagory of Goetic spirits. A religion can't turn an entity into a demon. It can "demonise" in the asthetic sense, but it can actually change the reality of what an entity is or isn't. If you're referencing sumerian entities and the like then fair enough but that's an interpretative argument that can only be based on practical experience this is a discussion about Goetia and the entities in question are, were and always will be what they were.
1. King Bael
2. Duke Agares
3. Prince Vassago
4. Marquis Samigina
5. President Marbas
6. Duke Valefar
7. Marquis Amon
8. Duke Barbatos
9. King Paimon
10. President Buer
11. Duke Gusion
12. Prince Sitri
13. King Beleth
14. Marquis Leraje
15. Duke Eligos
16. Duke Zepar
17. Count/President Botis
18. Duke Bathin
19. Duke Sallos
20. King Purson
21. Count/President Morax
22. Count/Prince Ipos
23. Duke Aim
24. Marquis Naberius
25. Count/President Glasya-Labolas
26. Duke Bune
27. Marquis/Count Ronove
28. Duke Berith
29. Duke Astaroth
30. Marquis Forneus
31. President Foras
32. King Asmodeus
33. Prince/President Gaap
34. Count Furfur
35. Marquis Marchosias
36. Prince Stolas
37. Marquis Phenex
38. Count Halphas
39. President Malphas
40. Count Raum
41. Duke Focalor
42. Duke Vepar
43. Marquis Sabnock
44. Marquis Shax
45. King/Count Vine
46. Count Bifrons
47. Duke Uvall
48. President Haagenti
49. Duke Crocell
50. Knight Furcas
51. King Balam
52. Duke Alloces
53. President Caim
54. Duke/Count Murmur
55. Prince Orobas
56. Duke Gremory
57. President Ose
58. President Amy
59. Marquis Orias
60. Duke Vapula
61. King/President Zagan
62. President Volac
63. Marquis Andras
64. Duke Haures
65. Marquis Andrealphus
66. Marquis Cimejes
67. Duke Amdusias
68. King Belial
69. Marquis Decarabia
70. Prince Seere
71. Duke Dantalion
72. Count Andromalius
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Post by hordriss on Apr 15, 2008 16:29:36 GMT
zomg christianity is teh evil everyone rage against the machine! I have literally no idea what you're talking about. As a means of turning people against the old pagan gods the christian theologeons, priests, missionaries, whatever you want to call them, took the names of the old gods and wrote, preached and taught that they were in fact demons. |
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john
Familiar
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Post by john on Apr 15, 2008 16:33:25 GMT
Yeah i get that, but it didn't actually turn them into demons...
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Post by hordriss on Apr 15, 2008 16:39:36 GMT
Oh I know that, although I suppose it depends on whether or not you view such supernatural entities as independant or as a result of anthropamorphic personification.
What I was wondering was, are the demons discussed in the key, the lesser key and luciferian goetia originally demons or old gods that people have just written about as demons based on what christians defined as demons.?
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john
Familiar
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Post by john on Apr 15, 2008 16:57:33 GMT
They are originally demons, they are not even close to being as powerfull as old gods. You can't summon gods with the simplicity of the Legemeton system and without serious macrocosmic repecussions. Secondly, just look at the operation. You're summoning creatures created by YHVH. Isn't that obvious?
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Post by hordriss on Apr 15, 2008 17:21:14 GMT
I suppose so.
So you're not abeliever in the power of belief? I.e. gods can loose power when people stop believing in them.
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john
Familiar
Posts: 56
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Post by john on Apr 15, 2008 17:30:08 GMT
It's not a question I've ever considered, but I don't see the relevance to Goetic evocation  I have no idea about questions regarding Gods. None of us do. I'm at a point of experimenting with both RHP and LHP paradigms so this question is even more unanswerable than it would be normally. |
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Post by hordriss on Apr 15, 2008 17:51:25 GMT
Both paths do have very interesting prospects, combining aspects of both might have some interesting possibilities.
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